Risk tolerance (222/365)

[white_hart]

I had an email recently from an academic who said how nice it was to be able to do the things that they hadn't been able to for ages - theatres! bookshops! pub lunches! - which left me thinking how nice it would be to do those things, but I definitely wouldn't feel comfortable going to a theatre at the moment, or anywhere where I would be spending more than a few minutes indoors with people I don't know. I am OK with going into shops, and have considered going to a bookshop, but given how high case numbers have been it felt a bit frivolous when I don't actually need any more books*, and might well not actually buy anything.

I know that I am pretty risk-averse, and it's also been long enough that I've almost forgotten what it was like to do those things; doing them now would feel strange and new, which would require more impetus than I can muster up in the face of ongoing pandemic "is it actually safe to do this?" anxiety. I do wonder whether I am being excessively risk-averse, though I don't get the sense that many of my friends are doing much more than I am.

Anyway, this is really just a preamble to a poll!

Poll #26014

Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 64

View Respondents

I live in the UK, and I would currently:

View Answers

use public transport to commute
18 (37.5%)

use public transport for leisure purposes
21 (43.8%)

have a drink at a pub or cafe - indoors
17 (35.4%)

have a drink at a pub or cafe - outdoors
39 (81.2%)

have a meal at a pub, cafe or restaurant - indoors
20 (41.7%)

have a meal at a pub, cafe or restaurant - outdoors
36 (75.0%)

go to a shop for essential purchases (however you define essential)
45 (93.8%)

go to a shop for non-essential purchases/to browse
24 (50.0%)

go to the theatre
8 (16.7%)

go to the cinema
7 (14.6%)

meet friends in an outdoor public place
44 (91.7%)

meet friends in a garden
46 (95.8%)

meet friends in your or their house
35 (72.9%)

I wouldn't do any of these things
1 (2.1%)

I live outside the UK, and I would currently:

View Answers

use public transport to commute
8 (50.0%)

use public transport for leisure purposes
6 (37.5%)

have a drink at a pub or cafe - indoors
1 (6.2%)

have a drink at a pub or cafe - outdoors
9 (56.2%)

have a meal at a pub, cafe or restaurant - indoors
1 (6.2%)

have a meal at a pub, cafe or restaurant - outdoors
8 (50.0%)

go to a shop for essential purchases (however you define essential)
15 (93.8%)

go to a shop for non-essential purchases/to browse
5 (31.2%)

go to the theatre
0 (0.0%)

go to the cinema
2 (12.5%)

meet friends in an outdoor public place
13 (81.2%)

meet friends in a garden
13 (81.2%)

meet friends in your or their house
9 (56.2%)

I wouldn't do any of these things
1 (6.2%)

*at the moment my kindle TBR pile appears to be going through a significant growth phase

Comments

[lilysea]

Since 3 April 2020, and continuing on now that I've been vaccinated because Delta strain appears able to break through and infect some vaccinated people

I've stayed home non-stop apart from

- travel between Old House and New House to do with moving house

- essential medical appointments

The only visitors I've had to my house have been

- my partner

- a plumber for necessary repairs

- a nurse to do blood draws

- a tradie

My risk tolerance is very low because I already spend 90% of my time in bed and need a power wheelchair to get around - if I caught COVID and developed long-COVID, it could mean I was no longer able to live at home independently [I live alone]

[white_hart]

Yes, I can absolutely see that would make you extremely cautious.

[telophase]

My risk tolerance is fairly high since I've been vaccinated, but my answers to the above things that involve public indoor spaces are also predicated on how crowded it is.

We went to a movie this past weekend and there were about 15 people in the theatre, one of the bigger theatres at that venue, seating almost 200. Since it's assigned seating booked online, we can see how full the theatre is a couple of hours before the show. 15 people in a space designed to seat 200? Totally fine with it. 100 people in a space designed to seat 200? Absolutely not.

I don't judge people who choose to be more conservative than I am, though.

[white_hart]

Yes, I think the degree of crowding is really key. I went to a local museum with visiting friends and their five-year-old because I knew they had pre-booking and reduced capacity; cinemas and theatres here can now book to their full capacity and it's hard to make that decision when you won't know until you get there how busy it will be.

[honigfrosch]

Addendum/Caveat that my answers (especially about eating/drinking inside a restaurant) are dependent on some factors not mentioned: a) how crowded or cramped is it? and b) are there precautions in place, e.g. people are wearing masks? For example, I recently invited my stepdad for lunch and we had greek food at a restaurant, but a lot of the tables were empty. People had to wear masks when not eating at their table. If it were at a crowded pub with mask-less individuals, I wouldn't feel comfortable. I might dive in real quick for my order, but I wouldn't consume anything inside.

Similarly, I've been to the cinema but they were quite strict (which I understand, and find justified). When booking a seat, the seat next to yours is automatically blocked. At the entrance, you have to provide a document showing that you recently (48 hours max) got tested negative, and it's not enough to use one of those quick self tests, it needs to be an antigen test. You also have to wear a mask until you are in your seat.

Public transport also requires wearing a surgical or FFP2 mask, and not using one can result in a fine. (I say "can" because often there aren't any authorities around to enforce it.)

Tl;dr the relatively strict precautions in Germany make it easier for me to be out and about in public spaces, even though I still have a psychological aversion to crowds or physical closeness.

[white_hart]

Yes, I'm actually more reluctant to do things now restrictions have been relaxed (almost completely removed) here than I was a few weeks ago!

[julian]

USian, here.

My rubric pre-vaccination was basically, if it involved staying in an enclosed space (with anything resembling a crowd) for an appreciable amount of time, then I wasn't doing it. I have, for the moment, gone back to that in public spaces.

I'd meet friends (in whatever venue, be it garden or in the house) if they're vaccinated. If not, nope. (This is in part because of my under-3-years-old niece and nephew, who I see about once a week, and would like not to be a vector for.)

While waiting to get my second jab, I was most looking forward to just being able to go to X Place (bookstore, thrift shop, etc) and hang out as long as I wanted, but Delta's put rather a crimp in that. (It's *probably* fine, and I'm doing more "non-essential" shopping than I was, just, not *lingering*.)

I may well do public transport come the fall, for one class a week, but it's more likely I'll drive in.

[white_hart]

Yes, I think my general feeling is that I don't want to be sharing enclosed spaces with anyone who I don't know well enough to be reasonably confident that they have a similar attitude to risk. (Pretty much everyone I know is now double jabbed, though Delta makes that seem much less relevant.)

[caulkhead]

"My answers to the above things that involve public indoor spaces are also predicated on how crowded it is."

Yes, this. I'm not totally *happy* about getting the train to commute to work, mind - I don't mind leisure so much because that way I can choose quieter times to travel - and I'll skip shops, restaurants etc if they look too full. The reason I feel uneasy about theatre/cinema is you can't really tell in advance how crowded they are. I'm not sure how logical any of this is, but risk behaviour rarely is, IME.

Also, although I have said I would in theory do most things, I have only started doing so in the last month, and am in practice doing them very, very infrequently, if at all.

[white_hart]

I feel similarly - I'd quite like to start getting the bus to and from work again, rather than driving, but the queues I pass at bus stops make me fear that the buses would be busier than I'm comfortable with.

[girlyswot]

I have booked a train to London to go to the theatre next week. I did think about it quite hard before deciding to go ahead. I suspect the train (well out of rush hour) will not be super-crowded, but I am a little nervous about the theatre.

[white_hart]

I hope that you enjoy it!

[mrs_redboots]

I do go to church, but we're required to wear masks there unless we're up the front, and as our church has a large garden, we have services out of doors whenever the weather permits. But I wouldn't be comfortable going to the cinema or a theatre as they can't leave the doors open! And although I'd probably be okay eating out at lunchtime, in the evening, not so much! I have shopped all the way through (except when I actually had Covid-19) but always worn a mask, even before it became compulsory. And continue to do so. We had a meeting tonight that I fought to have on Zoom (and luckily someone else was in the USA, so we could); if we'd had to meet in person I would have firmly worn my mask, and hope others would have, too. Having had Covid-19 once, I'm desperate never to catch it again, even though it's vanishingly unlikely I would (I have had antibody testing that confirm I've already had it, plus I'm fully vaccinated). All the same.... not doing that again if I can help it!

[white_hart]

Although I know from our own building reopening that it's perfectly possible for spaces without external windows/doors to be perfectly adequately ventilated, psychologically it's hard to separate "adequate ventilation" from "lots of fresh air"!

[strange_complex]

I've ticked that I would do everything on the UK list, not least because I did do all of them except theatre and cinema last week while on holiday. But I kind of view last week as exceptional, rather than what I 'would' do at any given time. In normal, everyday life I'm still not doing indoor-with-other-people things on a regular basis and am choosing safer options where possible - e.g. I've just arranged to see a friend next weekend in her garden, rather than anywhere indoors. I was unusually cavalier last week for the sake of a workable holiday, but it belongs in a wider context of being more cautious overall. Like I concentrated a couple of months' worth of calculated risks into one week, if that makes sense.

[white_hart]

Yes, that does make sense! We've booked a self-catering holiday though I do think it would be nice to have an outdoor meal somewhere...

[rachelmanija]

I'd meet friends indoors if they're vaccinated.

I said no to drinking and eating, but I actually will outdoors on a case by case basis, depending on how outdoors it really is and how close I am to others.

[white_hart]

I'm generally OK with outdoor things unless they're really crowded. Though it's generally not possible for Oxford in the summer to be anything other than really crowded!

[cmcmck]

I can't speak for others but I find I simply can't not do anything any longer so I've started doing things again!

I suspect Brits are simply not very good at assessing risk although that may be true for others as well.

[fencesitting]

*I simply can't not do anything any longer so I've started doing things again!*

This is where I'm at, with both of our household adults fully jabbed, we are starting to do things again.

[antisoppist]

I've spent a bit of time today deliberating on whether I want to give Amazon more money or spend time tomorrow in a shop (children's birthday presents) and have decided on the shop but this is partly because I feel it will be really exciting to wander round a shop by myself. For things like food shopping my habits have changed in lockdown as deliveries work well and the village shops fill in the gaps, stock local food, are enforcing masks and distance, and I want to support them. I wonder whether I will ever drive to a big supermarket again.

[white_hart]

I hope you managed to find suitable presents and enjoyed the browsing!

[lilliburlero]

I've ticked all the things that I have done: I'm OK with pretty much anything outdoors and I've met other fully vaccinated people indoors. I've been trundling around occasionally on public transport for quite a while without ill effect, so I reckon that's fairly safe.

I would have gone to the cinema to see The Green Knight (not every day there's an adaptation of a 14th century poem starring Dev Patel) but it didn't get a theatrical release in UK/Ireland, and nothing in the cinemas so far has caught my attention.

[white_hart]

I am partly disappointed about The Green Knight not getting a theatrical release, and partly a bit glad to have been saved the dilemma. (And this is Oxford, so I imagine cinemas would be packed for it!)

[melannen]

I am US and my answer to a bunch of these is currently "it depends"

Transit: I think if I had previously been depending on transit for commute, after a year of this I would have figured something else out by now. I would not currently switch to a job that requires a public transit commute. I probably would be willing to do it for a one-time thing if I knew it wasn't going to be during a crowded time of day, but I'm trying to think of any leisure things that I would usually take transit for that I'd be currently willing to do, and can't think of any (maybe if someone in the city wanted to meetup for something outdoors in a completely un-parkable part of the city?) I probably would be willing to take transit rather than drive to a protest in DC if I felt strongly enough about whatever was being protested. Evidence seems to be that transit is way lower risk than you'd think for covid because it does actually have very good ventilation generally, but being crammed into a standing-room-only bus or train car twice a day still seems like a bad idea (also I, and several people I know, had the experience earlier this summer before Delta got bad of doing something a little bit riskier - and catching a bad non-Covid cold immediately, since we haven't been exposed to anything for a year, and I'd like to avoid that happening again too.)

I am still ok with grocery shopping, etc. The stores around here are spaced out enough, and people are good enough about masks and distance, that I'm probably at less risk than going to work ('is it riskier than my work' is my general benchmark since work reopened. Work is riskier than I'd prefer, but I guess if I'm doing that much for mammon I'm willing to do it for fun too.) I am kind of wibbling about less-vital purchases - I'm still in the middle of a move/renovation so there's a lot of stuff that's like, I sort of need, but not super need? Last weekend I still felt okay about going to those stores to shop around, I may change my mind by next weekend.

I am still fine with doing most things outdoors. Old covid, there was pretty strong evidence that there was basically no outdoor transmission. Delta there's a bit more risk but I think outdoors + masks + at least some distancing is probably fine. I still wouldn't go to anything outdoors where large crowds will be pressed closely together (except maybe a super vital political protest, but fingers crossed we will have fewer of those here for a little while.)

I have a small number of friends that I have been semi-bubbled with for awhile; we kind of negotiate every time how we feel about risk; right now I have the highest risk of infection and lowest risk of bad outcome in the group, so I have been mostly letting them set the standard. I would be willing to visit them inside/masked if they felt comfortable. Probably not anybody outside that tiny bubble, though.

[white_hart]

I normally commute by public transport, but since I've returned to the office I've been driving instead. I would prefer to be back on the bus, though, and hope I'll feel safe enough to do that soon.

[rmc28]

My answers are very conservative because I am spending most of my "indoors with others" budget on ice skating and therefore avoiding almost everything else except essential shopping (although we are now shopping in our local supermarkets again rather than only getting deliveries). I'm much more relaxed about doing things outdoors though.

Another factor is that two of my household are under 16 and therefore there's currently no plans to vaccinate them. If that changes, or if case rates locally drop back to where they were in mid-May, I'll expand my risk tolerance a bit.

If I wasn't skating at all, I would probably be prepared to visit a cinema or theatre and consider taking public transport more often, but I might need to take a while to work up to it. I made an exception to take the bus with the children recently and the bus ended up getting way fuller than I'd expected and I found it very stressful. I only really coped by reiterating to myself that it was a short ride and the children and I had masks even if not all of our fellow passengers did.

I wrote about coming up with a simplified set of rules for myself at end of June and it hasn't really changed except case rates are much higher now.

[mrs_redboots]

My husband has started skating again, and dance club seems to be allowing him to skate with a partner again, which I am not at all sure I am happy about (I suppose Kilian hold is okay); I had to give up skating some years ago, and don't really miss it.

[nineveh_uk]

Reposted in right place. Another one on the "it depends how crowded" list for indoors. I've been to an indoor exhibition (masks so pulsars at the time), which felt fine as there was loads of space. I'm mostly happy outdoors, but wouldn't have gone near the Euros games. I'm most concerned about eating indoors.

[white_hart]

I went to the Natural History Museum a few weeks ago, and it felt pretty safe as masks were required and they were keeping numbers low. Eating indoors definitely feels too risky right now.

[mountainkiss]

Important caveat to mine: I travel on public transport but am quite careful about the times of day.

[perennialanna]

That is very much true for me - my weekend train times were chosen around not only non-crowded trains but also what times I would be on buses either end.

For me, pretty much everything on the list is lower risk than my working life has been throughout the pandemic. This has definitely skewed my risk perception (which has never really been up to much anyway).

[mrs_redboots]

This morning I read that a friend of mine and her husband had attended a concert at a church - I think I'd be fine with that, but not yet with going to a concert hall.

[white_hart]

Concerts in churches definitely tend to have more space!

[lnr]

NB eating or drinking indoors depends very much on the space in question, and I'm doing it much less than I would have previously. Leisure public transport is still at a minimum even if I am now willing to do it. I'm still masking. I've been willing to meet close family indoors at mum's house, and in a couple of weeks will share a cottage with mum/dad - but I wouldn't meet friends indoors yet. And all the adults in the family are double vaxxed.

[white_hart]

I've only actually seen my parents indoors, but I think I'd be happy to meet friends if I knew they were double vaxxed and had a similar risk profile to mine. I'd generally prefer outdoors, though.

[alithea]

With the caveats that I've used 'public transport for commuting' as a proxy for travelling to work on the flat while Kev can't drive and to my pottery classes, which I'm not counting as leisure because I'm going to be attempting to make some money out of crafting in the run up to xmas; and that 'friends in the house' is strictly limited to vaccinated friends who I know are also not eating inside in restaurants or going to the pub etc.

The gym this morning was a bit busy for my liking - I nearly left when I saw yoga was cancelled but I decided to do a workout instead and am hoping I've got away with it. I shall do a test before I go anywhere tomorrow morning though and I shan't go at that time of the morning again now the kids have gone back to school(! - I cannot get over how early they go back up here)

ETA: we did go to an art exhibition but it was under the stricter COVID measures when there were only 4 folks per room and everyone in masks etc etc, so it felt very safe. Now things have opened up more, I am ironically no longer considering doing that sort of thing unless it's very quiet and the cases have dropped more locally.

[white_hart]

Yes, I also feel more reluctant to do things now restrictions have been relaxed than I was before!

[conuly]

When I said I'd "meet friends", I'm not meeting friends anywhere indoors unless they're vaccinated, and if it's outdoors and they're not vaccinated OR it's a crowded place, masks.

[white_hart]

I definitely wouldn't do indoors unless everyone was fully vaccinated, though I know that not all of the people who've been coming into the office have been (the last of them had their second jab today).

[qatsi]

I'm going in to London tomorrow, for the first time since March 2020. I've just booked the train ticket, which was painful. (I have a GWR smartcard, but no, my ticket cannot be delivered to the card. I must install The App instead. I must have a seat reservation for the outbound journey, which means committing to a specific train. And so on. Some of this is more reasonable than others. At least, now I can truly blame the government.) The current policy is WFH mostly but "we'd like you to visit the office once or twice to get used to it", which sounds reasonable. And I've persuaded a couple of team members to join me, so we'll actually get to meet each other. I am double-vaccinated for just over a month, but they aren't, yet. Though the desk booking system has its flaws, it seems to have worked; it looks like the office will be very sparsely populated when I'm there.

Ironically, the trigger for the trip is social, meeting some former colleagues (outdoors) in the evening, so I end up maximising the number of people I might meet in the time. Shurely some mistake?

I have mixed feelings about going to any Proms this year. It's one thing to wear a face covering on public transport, or visiting a health care setting, but it's something else to be recommended to wear one at a cultural/leisure event. (I'm not disagreeing with the current recommendation, but I don't look positively on it as a medium to long-term normalisation, and it tells you a lot about what you need to know now about crowded spaces; from watching on TV it looks like around 75% compliance - of course there may be some exemptions in the others.)

I share your indecision about whether I have been too risk-averse, and I don't feel entirely comfortable with my proposed course of action, but I think the more compelling argument for me is that, if there is something you want to do, it may be better to do it now than in a few months' time.

[white_hart]

Yes, I find the idea of wearing a face covering to a concert really odd. (I have tickets to go and see Billy Bragg at the end of October, which I booked nearly a year ago when it felt like it would all be over by this autumn; I'm feeling much less happy about that now.)

[clanwilliam]

I'm doing a lot of leisure public transport this month, but I upgraded my Weekend Vrij to first class and I frequently have the carriage to myself.

I did indoors for several hours eating and drinking with friends last weekend, but we're all fully vaccinated and everyone had about the same exposure amount - basically, at home all the time, not seeing people closely and not doing much outside essential shopping, so it was very safe indeed.

I'm happy to browse in a nearly empty shop, but I did nearly have a panic attack in the kitchen aisle of TK Maxx when a huge maskless family blocked the end of one aisle and a couple of people nearly trapped me in from the other end, so any browsing will revert to Thursday mornings, which I currently have off in lieu of Friday afternoons as subs never get to leave at the same time as sales. I still wear masks in shops even though they're not mandated anymore.

I didn't go and see Black Widow in the cinema, as I realised I was still uncomfortable with that.

And now I'm off to go and laze around a luxury bathroom in Amsterdam and visit the Rijksmuseum tomorrow - the museums here are running entry time slots, so again, I feel safer that way.

[white_hart]

I'm very envious of your train travel! And the Rijksmuseum.

[kaberett]

A is doing all of the house-leaving-being-in-other-buildings Stuff for the household, on the grounds that he's a lot more manoeuvrable than I am.

[white_hart]

That makes sense!

[occasionalhope]

Cinema and theatres still seem like a step too fat=r, but I'm reasonably comfortable with everything else, although some of it is still masked.

[white_hart]

Theatres and cinemas definitely feel like the most risky things!

[lokifan]

I'm fully vaccinated and so are almost all my friends, so I'm willing to see them indoors. Otherwise it's outdoors all the way. I did say yes to cinema and theatre, but that depends on if they have everyone masked and distanced or not, and whether I trust the crowd to obey. I've done one cinema trip and one indoor theatre trip and I actually felt much safer than on public transport because people weren't talking and were MUCH more vigilant about masks.